View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | View Status | Date Submitted | Last Update |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0000879 | SpeedFan | Fan control | public | 2007-05-19 10:06 | 2008-10-03 15:57 |
| Reporter | Zief | Assigned To | alfredo | ||
| Priority | normal | Severity | feature | Reproducibility | N/A |
| Status | acknowledged | Resolution | open | ||
| Platform | Asus P5B-E Plus | OS | XP | ||
| Summary | 0000879: Set fan speed at startup | ||||
| Description | Would it be possible to add possibility to set speeds at certain level during speedfan startup? Now it is at level that is set in bios (in my case 100% :/, and bios settings suck in that matter) so its really annoying to manually change speed after each restart. Or maybe there is some way to edit bios to change default speed? | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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same issue as bugs 813/816. And I think there are other similar reports. I think there might be two separate issues: 1. For users who use the automatic fan speed feature (see bug 60) 2. For users who use Speedfan only manually (eg like me). That is, we want to use it like the manual hardware fan controllers. Anyway, it would be great to concatenate all the similar reports into one report. |
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Why do you use Speedfan to adjust the fan speeds manually? What's the point of that? Speedfan can do everything automatically and far better than any manual control. |
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To set fan speeds to a certain level automatically is not the same as to set fan speeds manually. When users want SpeedFan to set fan speeds at startup to a certain value I always answer that, if properly instructred, SpeedFan will lower fan speeds AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. Users often forget that at startup there is quite a lot of work for the CPU and that this causes temperatures to raise. If, on the other hand, a user knows that his computer can work fine with a specific fan speed setting, this can be easily configured and SpeedFan will automatically use that speed. |
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>Why do you use Speedfan to adjust the fan speeds manually? What's the point of >that? Speedfan can do everything automatically and far better than any manual >control. As an electronic engineer, I beg to differ for the following reasons: a) For a closed loop to be able to control a temperature via a fan(s), you need to know whether the open loop gain of the system is well above 1. Now, temperature inside pc's components is not directly related to ALL fan speeds. It's not that easy to find which fan affects which temperature. Even when one is able to guess that, it is difficult to get an idea of the gain mentioned above (i.e. whether the fan is really able to offer more than a minimal improvement on a component's temperature) b) It might be easy to get a noisy system, if the temperature limits you set cannot be achieved due to low open loop gain (see above). Or to get the fans frequently revving up/down, when a temperature limit is approached (I can very easily reproduce this). b) I don't know the temp. regulation algorithm inside Speedfan but (that is speculation on my side) depending on the design of the case and the position of the fans, some fans may antagonize each other, leading to an unstable system. Sorry for the technical jargon. I hope I'm wrong with the automatic mode anyway :) >If, on the other hand, a user knows that his computer can work fine with a >specific fan speed setting, this can be easily configured and SpeedFan will >automatically use that speed. This is my case. I assume you mean that I can set Speedfan in automatic mode and max=min fan speed, right? If yes, there are two problems with it: 1. It is not obvious how it works (actually it's a hack, from the ui point of view). Besides, I think many users would not trust any automatic mode at all (see problems above). 2. (minor issue) it needs a few more clicks I think the final solution would be to adopt a more straight and obvious separation of the manual and automatic control, on the main Speedfan window. One way to do that is by introducing two options (radio buttons) on the main window: i) Manual speed mode. In that case, the speed adjusters should be named "manual speed level" and should be remembered on startup/hibernation/standby ii) Automatic speed mode. In that case, the speed adjusters should be named "manual speed override". Speed override should not be remembered between system startups (i.e. as it is now). Alternatively, remove manual mode at all and rename speed adjusters as "manual speed override". Obviously, I don't favour that senario! |
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Regarding c), it is possible that two (or more) fans "antagonize" each other, but if that's the case, one needs to rearrange the fans because the setup is bad. I don't see the connection to Speedfan there. Unfortunatly, I did not understand a) and b) but maybe the following will help anyway: 1) Every user can decide to activate the automatic mode in the main window by selecting "Automatic fan speed". The automatic mode is not completely automatic because it requires some testing by the user to set the correct parameters in Speedfan. So I don't see the problem of "trust" because the configuration has to be done individually by the user anyway. Why would a user not trust his own settings? It is also possible to only use some fans in automatic mode and to control others manually at the same time (if the Motherboard/BIOS/Hardware is capable to do that). 2) For the temperatures you can set a "desired" and a "warning" value. If the actual temperature from the sensor is below "desired" the fan runs with the "minimum value". If the temperature is between "desired" and "warning" the fan runs with the "maximum value" speed; and if the warning temperature is exceeded the fan always runs at 100%. 3) If the fan speed "jumps" up and down, simply adjust your settings. I hope this lights things up a little bit. |
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I fully understand what you wrote and I had all those in mind when I did my previous post. What I wanted to show is that - automatic mode isn't as easy to make it work, making it all neccessary to improve the manual mode (hence the need for remembering speed adjustment on startup). - Not all "power" users may fully understand the above. Why not giving them a fully working manual mode? There are quite a few manual hardware controllers in the market (from Zalman, to name one manufacturer). Since there is a market for these controllers (and I suspect they are the majority), why not making Speedfan an able manual controller? - Sometimes the target is low noise, not low temp. A full manual mode (clearly separated from the automatic mode) is needed for those cases. Since I made a mistake in my proposal above (during automatic mode, you cannot override the automatic speed adjustment), here is my correct new proposal for the main window interface. It should have two radio button options: i) MANUAL SPEED MODE. In that case, one should be able to modify the speed adjusters. Those adjustments should be remembered on startup/resume from hibernation/resume from standby ii) AUTOMATIC SPEED MODE. In that case, one should not be able to modify the speed adjusters. Nothing should be remembered after a startup/resume from hibernation/resume from standby I am opening a request for the above in separate report |
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"Sometimes the target is low noise, not low temp. A full manual mode (clearly separated from the automatic mode) is needed for those cases." I absolutely disagree with that. The automatic mode can be adjusted to the personal priorities (temp vs. noise). You can run all fans with the smallest possible speed in automatic mode as well. Maybe you can give an example for your statement? @edit By the way, I hate hearing my fans :) |
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>>Sometimes the target is low noise, not low temp. A full manual mode (clearly >>separated from the automatic mode) is needed for those cases. >I absolutely disagree with that. The automatic mode can be adjusted to the >personal priorities (temp vs. noise). You can run all fans with the smallest >possible speed in automatic mode as well. >Maybe you can give an example for your statement? You are right that you can make the automatic mode to work with low noise priority (essentially, manually). But it is still a hack (I am insisting on this term) and most noise-aware users would expect a straightforward manual mode, just like manual hardware controllers do. |
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It is my opinion that nobody should use Speedfan who doesn't know the (temperature) limits of the system. Even if you adjust the fan speed manually you have to know those limits and if you know them it's not very difficult nor time consuming to setup the automatic mode. Especially, since there are a number of tutorials on the web and Speedfan includes a detailed help file where (almost) everything is explained. In the past years I have helped many people setting up Speedfan correctly and I can't remember a single user who mentioned that he/she would prefer a manual mode. "Simply" adjusting the fan speed manually can become very unhealthy for the system, I hope we agree on that, and if somebody knows what he/she is doing than the automatic mode is more interesting than the manual setup. |
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If you set MAX FAN SPEED to the value you would like to use for MANUAL setup and then enter WARNING temperatures, SpeedFan will keep your favourite fan speeds unless any temperature crosses its threshold. In this case, all fan speeds would be to to 100%. I think that this is much better than manual mode alone. |
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>"Simply" adjusting the fan speed manually can become very unhealthy for the >system, I hope we agree on that, and if somebody knows what he/she is doing >than the automatic mode is more interesting than the manual setup. I agree, although one could easily destroy his hardware by entering wrong automatic settings either. In general, the automatic mode is definitely better (safer) but the amount of user questions and the need for detailed tutorials and help files shows that the ui might needs some improvement. Just imagine how many people buy manual harware controllers and what these people might think if the manufacturers required them to read tutorials on how to use them. Again (now I am hating myself since I actually repeat what I said in bug 0001250) I will ask: why you offer a crippled manual mode in the first place when you think that >Why do you use Speedfan to adjust the fan speeds manually? What's the point >of that? Speedfan can do everything automatically and far better than any >manual control Speedfan is an excellent tool. Some small improvements here and there might make it easier to use by a larger than its current user base. |
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It might be helpful to add some "balloon tips" for the settings. That way frequently asked questions could be avoided. @jimpap Do you have any suggestions for improvement? |
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>Do you have any suggestions for improvement? Related to this discussion (fan speed issues): 1. See bug 0001250. At least, graying out (make them unmodifiable) the speed adjusters of the main window (when in auto mode) would help a lot without altering current way of operation. 2.The tooltips you suggested is another good idea. When someone modifies the speed adjusters of the main window, he should be reminded that the setting will not be remembered after restarting/resuming Windows. Additionally, if suggestion 1 won't be implemented, the tooltip must warn user that playing with speed adjusters does not make sense in automatic mode. 3. I have also mentioned a status screen at the bottom where some helpful messages might be written. This would clutter the ui, though. |
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I too would love a 'simple' 'always set fan x to speed y on startup' mode. Or I might say: would have loved, since I have now already set up speedfan the automatic way. The reason is in the 'simple': I don't really want to do all the setup, think about how each fan influences the temp of each component etc etc. Don't get me wrong, now that you've forced me to do it a bit, I think you've done it right, and it's even logical once I 'got' it, but it's still a bit of work, just to get my fan running at 40% speed, which is what I really want. So yes, you can already do it, but it is complicated to do so. And we're looking for a simple setting. On top of that (and I think this is the reason you get these bug reports), at first sight, this is exactly what the program seems to promise! You start it, set the fan speeds, and it works! So you close it, open it again, and the speed setting is still there... Yay, just what you wanted! You drop speedfan in the startup folder, reboot, and there's the airplane taking off sound again?!? :( Why does speedfan remember my settings, but not after a reboot? I'm guessing speedfan didn't remember the settings after all the first time, it just re-read them from the chip. Still, that's what it seemed to do. |
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YEAARR exactly legolas_a20. But Alfredo didnt understand (or he will not) that some people would welcome the "fan x to speed y on startup' mode". I suggest it a few months ago; his answer:"I might add an option to start with some specific fan speeds." But still nothing... Or simply use the same procedure as after resume from standby (wich was also added after my suggestion). There it works, why not after startup?! And please dont come with the argumentation that after bootup the CPU is soooo hot... The CPU has ROOM Temperature, wich is far away from melting temperature of cpu. |
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gseeder: "And please dont come with the argumentation that after bootup the CPU is soooo hot... The CPU has ROOM Temperature, wich is far away from melting temperature of cpu." I can not agree on room temperature processor after the restart PC. For example, after hard work CPU, PC was rebooted (high temperature), at boot time, too, is pressure on the CPU (and another SpeedFan tried to reduce fanpeed). While on the other hand, such an optional feature in most cases is very useful. You may just need to mention this option when you turn as "dangerous, possible overheating", or something in that spirit... |
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Did you test SpeedFan 4.36 beta 15? It reduces fan speeds more aggressively then in previous releases. |
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@wallamette2 I would found it useful. The fan rotates also during boot time because of the bios control. So the cpu wouldnt overheat during reboot. @alfredo yes when i wrote this above i had beta 15. its slows down just as previous rls. |
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@gseeder The latest beta will reduce fan speeds more aggressively when the current temperature is 2C below the warning temperature. If your fan speeds are not reduced when well below the warning temperature, this means that the temperature is raising. I see no reason why a fan speed should be lowered when a temperature is raising. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2007-05-19 10:06 | Zief | New Issue | |
| 2008-09-07 18:55 | jimpap | Note Added: 0004115 | |
| 2008-09-07 18:57 | jimpap | Note Edited: 0004115 | |
| 2008-09-07 19:34 | norman02us | Note Added: 0004120 | |
| 2008-09-08 09:05 | alfredo | Note Added: 0004122 | |
| 2008-09-08 09:05 | alfredo | Status | assigned => acknowledged |
| 2008-09-09 22:57 | jimpap | Note Added: 0004137 | |
| 2008-09-09 22:59 | jimpap | Note Edited: 0004137 | |
| 2008-09-09 23:00 | jimpap | Note Edited: 0004137 | |
| 2008-09-09 23:50 | norman02us | Note Added: 0004139 | |
| 2008-09-09 23:51 | norman02us | Note Edited: 0004139 | |
| 2008-09-09 23:52 | norman02us | Note Edited: 0004139 | |
| 2008-09-09 23:52 | norman02us | Note Edited: 0004139 | |
| 2008-09-10 00:14 | jimpap | Note Added: 0004141 | |
| 2008-09-10 00:34 | norman02us | Note Added: 0004142 | |
| 2008-09-10 00:34 | norman02us | Note Edited: 0004142 | |
| 2008-09-10 21:03 | jimpap | Note Added: 0004144 | |
| 2008-09-11 03:55 | norman02us | Note Added: 0004146 | |
| 2008-09-11 09:44 | alfredo | Note Added: 0004148 | |
| 2008-09-11 09:44 | alfredo | Relationship added | related to 0001250 |
| 2008-09-15 17:50 | jimpap | Note Added: 0004165 | |
| 2008-09-15 18:20 | norman02us | Note Added: 0004167 | |
| 2008-09-20 01:06 | jimpap | Note Added: 0004171 | |
| 2008-09-29 00:13 | legolas_a20 | Note Added: 0004195 | |
| 2008-09-29 19:36 | gseeder | Note Added: 0004196 | |
| 2008-09-29 19:48 | gseeder | Note Edited: 0004196 | |
| 2008-09-29 23:19 | Willamette2 | Note Added: 0004198 | |
| 2008-09-30 00:16 | alfredo | Note Added: 0004201 | |
| 2008-09-30 00:49 | gseeder | Note Added: 0004204 | |
| 2008-10-03 15:57 | alfredo | Note Added: 0004212 | |
| 2008-10-03 15:58 | alfredo | Note Edited: 0004212 |
